Needing some high-strength 7/16ths bolts, over the holidays I visited
one of the unofficial RV assembly plants here in San Diego county.
Located in an industrial park adjacent to the airport, the fellow has
set-up permanent fixtures just like a real aircraft factory, allowing
him to assemble an RV with perfect accuracy in remarkably little time.
RV's use NAS bolts to hold the wings on and I'd come a'begging.

He had a new helper, a guy about my age. He was over at the
leading-edge fixture, struggling to install a cleco. From his body
language I guessed the thing was bent. I would have tossed it but he
kept wrestling with it, finally got it in and went on to the next. But
damned if he didn't do the same thing.

I found my friend in his cubby hole, told him what I was after, showed
him what I had to trade. He poked around in his cabinets, found what I
needed and gave me four. Looking past me he saw the fellow working on
the leading edge. Heaved a big sigh and shook his head. The guy was
struggling with yet another cleco.

"Somebody bend all your clecos?" I asked.

My friend gave a bark of laughter. "There's nothing wrong with the
clecos," he said shaking his head. We both watched the guy. He
finally got it in, flexed his hand and started doing an other in the
same awkward manner. We watched him put in three then the fellow must
of sensed he was being watched because he looked up.

"He doesn't know how to cleco," I said in surprise.

"Yeah," my friend agreed. He told me how the fellow was
ex-military, had his ticket and a zillion years experience. "But
nobody ever showed him how to set a cleco," he sighed.

I tucked my bolts in my pocket and got the hell outta there, not
wanting to be around when my friend, who was never in the military and
isn't an A&P, tried to explain to a card-carrying sixty year old A&P
that he doesn't know how to cleco.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I can't remember how old I was when my dad let me help him rivet.
About nine, I think. Unless you're using PK's, knowing how to
cleco is a required part of knowing how to rivet.

Clecos are spring-loaded temporary fasteners. They get inserted
through the hole where the rivet goes and serve to hold the parts in
alignment for drilling and riveting. Once everything is aligned, you
set rivets in the holes between the clecos, then remove the clecos and
set a rivet in that hole too. The cleco is installed and removed with
a pair of special pliers referred to as forceps in the trade. Because
of the spring, it takes a certain amount of strength to use them. But
not much, as shown by Rosy the Riveter and her million sisters.

To use clecos, you insert the tang into the hole, press the cleco flush
against the visible part then squeeze the handles whilst maintaining a
moderate amount of pressure on the cleco. The pair of shaped wires are
squeezed past the tang and through the hole in the INVISIBLE part with
a slight click, telling you it's okay to relax your grip and go on to
the next one. Doing a panel, you'll have a handful of clecos in one
hand, the forceps in the other, shooting a cleco into every third or
fourth hole at the rate of about one every five seconds or less. Do it
right, it takes just that one, quick squeeze. Since you aren't
trying to hold the cleco compressed, and since you only have to
compress it far enough to let the shaped wires through the hole, it
doesn't take a lot of strength - - even a kid can do it.

What the fellow at the RV factory was doing was putting a cleco into
the forceps then squeezing until the locking wires were fully extended.
Holding it with the spring fully compressed, he was trying to fly the
pair of locking wires through the hole in the two layers of metal,
which he eventually did. But he was spending a minute or more per
cleco. In the time he took to do one row a real tin-bender would have
secured the entire panel.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I've reached an age where I'm no longer surprised at the things
people don't know but should. My visit to the RV factory showed me
yet another reason why some folks think riveting is hard. And why
others take years to complete a six-month project.

-R.S.Hoover

PS - PK's are hex-head sheet-metal screws fitted with a non-marring
washer. That what we used before clecos came along.

wrote:
> Needing some high-strength 7/16ths bolts, over the holidays I visited
> one of the unofficial RV assembly plants here in San Diego county.
> Located in an industrial park adjacent to the airport, the fellow has
> set-up permanent fixtures just like a real aircraft factory, allowing
> him to assemble an RV with perfect accuracy in remarkably little time.
> RV's use NAS bolts to hold the wings on and I'd come a'begging.
>
> He had a new helper, a guy about my age. He was over at the
> leading-edge fixture, struggling to install a cleco. From his body
> language I guessed the thing was bent. I would have tossed it but he
> kept wrestling with it, finally got it in and went on to the next. But
> damned if he didn't do the same thing.
>
> I found my friend in his cubby hole, told him what I was after, showed
> him what I had to trade. He poked around in his cabinets, found what I
> needed and gave me four. Looking past me he saw the fellow working on
> the leading edge. Heaved a big sigh and shook his head. The guy was
> struggling with yet another cleco.
>
> "Somebody bend all your clecos?" I asked.
>
> My friend gave a bark of laughter. "There's nothing wrong with the
> clecos," he said shaking his head. We both watched the guy. He
> finally got it in, flexed his hand and started doing an other in the
> same awkward manner. We watched him put in three then the fellow must
> of sensed he was being watched because he looked up.
>
> "He doesn't know how to cleco," I said in surprise.
>
> "Yeah," my friend agreed. He told me how the fellow was
> ex-military, had his ticket and a zillion years experience. "But
> nobody ever showed him how to set a cleco," he sighed.
>
> I tucked my bolts in my pocket and got the hell outta there, not
> wanting to be around when my friend, who was never in the military and
> isn't an A&P, tried to explain to a card-carrying sixty year old A&P
> that he doesn't know how to cleco.

Sounds like an aircraft factory to me. The products of that factory
are not "homebuilts" and the FAA is failing to do its job by allowing
said aircraft to be certificated as Experimental Amateur-Built.

Dick van Grunsven knows this is going on. He knows it isn't really
right. but I don't blame Dick even though he is becoming a
multimillionaire from this scam. I blame the FAA.

Homebuilts should be that, built in one's domicile or in a
single-ooccupant wholly owned area with the builder a _nonprofessional_
aircraft constructor. An A&P should not be allowed to touch a homebuilt
unless he is also a pilot and can testify under oath it is for his
personal use and will not be sold, at least for some period of time.

If you want to be in the business of building aircraft, you should be
building a type-certificated aircraft. Else, why have such a thing at
all? Get rid of type certification entirely.

Either type certification is good or it is bad. Let's poop or get out
of the outhouse instead of allowing a kitchen business of foolish old
farts to mess with progress. Especially since they are not interested
in educating anyone else, expanding aviation, or developing the
technology.

"Bret Ludwig" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Dick van Grunsven knows this is going on. He knows it isn't really
> right. but I don't blame Dick even though he is becoming a
> multimillionaire from this scam. I blame the FAA.

Plonk!

Rich S.

Thanks again Hoover.

wrote:



>
> What the fellow at the RV factory was doing was putting a cleco into
> the forceps then squeezing until the locking wires were fully extended.
> Holding it with the spring fully compressed, he was trying to fly the
> pair of locking wires through the hole in the two layers of metal,
> which he eventually did. But he was spending a minute or more per
> cleco. In the time he took to do one row a real tin-bender would have
> secured the entire panel.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> I've reached an age where I'm no longer surprised at the things
> people don't know but should. My visit to the RV factory showed me
> yet another reason why some folks think riveting is hard. And why
> others take years to complete a six-month project.
>
> -R.S.Hoover
>

I respect and read everything you write and I know that you have a great
amount of knowledge, so here it comes "BUT." :-) I built my whole RV-6
using the method that you say the guy was doing wrong and I can tell you
from experience of setting around 12,000 to 14,000 rivets myself that
method works just fine. In fact I will work along side your method
anytime and keep up with you if not be a little faster. I cannot see
where your method is any better than the other way. When the cleco
pliers depress the cleco the two protruding wires come together and it
is easy to slip the cleco into the hole. IMO of course. :-)

Jerry(flying my old RV-6 for to 17 years) Springer

In article . com>,
wrote:

>
> To use clecos, you insert the tang into the hole, press the cleco flush
> against the visible part then squeeze the handles whilst maintaining a
> moderate amount of pressure on the cleco. The pair of shaped wires are
> squeezed past the tang and through the hole in the INVISIBLE part with
> a slight click, telling you it's okay to relax your grip and go on to
> the next one.

All right, I'm a confused newbie. So please, help me out, here. I'm told
that the correct hole for a 1/8" rivet is a #30, which is 0.1285". My
1/8" clecos, uncompressed or unextended, are measuring about 0.158",
rotating them in the calipers to find the maximum (diagonal) dimension.

I didn't have an experienced builder leaning over my shoulder when my
tools arrived, so I tried to figure them out on my own. Apparently, I've
been using the "wrong" technique, but I tried your suggested method, and
I can't get the 0.158 cleco through the 0.1285 hole. Do you have any
further clarification?

>PS - PK's are hex-head sheet-metal screws fitted with a non-marring washer. That what we used before clecos came along.

Hoover,

Do I have to 'smooth out' the hole after removing the PK's before
putting in the rivets? I'd think that the various 'cuts' in the
material due to the PK's might be a good starting point for a crack/rip
to develope.

The Monk

"Forceps"???...what the hell are "FORCEPS"???
I been in the "trade" for 30 years and I never heard of nuttin called
forceps!!!...that had anything to do with cleco's...
....wait a minute. You talkin' 'bout Cleco pliers???...you know... the cleco
pliers you put the cleco's in with...that wut your callin a "forcep"?

Ohhhh...I admit...ahm' a little slow on them big wurds.

Dr. Dave (in his "other" trade) :-)
> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Needing some high-strength 7/16ths bolts, over the holidays I visited
> one of the unofficial RV assembly plants here in San Diego county.
> Located in an industrial park adjacent to the airport, the fellow has
> set-up permanent fixtures just like a real aircraft factory, allowing
> him to assemble an RV with perfect accuracy in remarkably little time.
> RV's use NAS bolts to hold the wings on and I'd come a'begging.
>
> He had a new helper, a guy about my age. He was over at the
> leading-edge fixture, struggling to install a cleco. From his body
> language I guessed the thing was bent. I would have tossed it but he
> kept wrestling with it, finally got it in and went on to the next. But
> damned if he didn't do the same thing.
>
> I found my friend in his cubby hole, told him what I was after, showed
> him what I had to trade. He poked around in his cabinets, found what I
> needed and gave me four. Looking past me he saw the fellow working on
> the leading edge. Heaved a big sigh and shook his head. The guy was
> struggling with yet another cleco.
>
> "Somebody bend all your clecos?" I asked.
>
> My friend gave a bark of laughter. "There's nothing wrong with the
> clecos," he said shaking his head. We both watched the guy. He
> finally got it in, flexed his hand and started doing an other in the
> same awkward manner. We watched him put in three then the fellow must
> of sensed he was being watched because he looked up.
>
> "He doesn't know how to cleco," I said in surprise.
>
> "Yeah," my friend agreed. He told me how the fellow was
> ex-military, had his ticket and a zillion years experience. "But
> nobody ever showed him how to set a cleco," he sighed.
>
> I tucked my bolts in my pocket and got the hell outta there, not
> wanting to be around when my friend, who was never in the military and
> isn't an A&P, tried to explain to a card-carrying sixty year old A&P
> that he doesn't know how to cleco.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> I can't remember how old I was when my dad let me help him rivet.
> About nine, I think. Unless you're using PK's, knowing how to
> cleco is a required part of knowing how to rivet.
>
> Clecos are spring-loaded temporary fasteners. They get inserted
> through the hole where the rivet goes and serve to hold the parts in
> alignment for drilling and riveting. Once everything is aligned, you
> set rivets in the holes between the clecos, then remove the clecos and
> set a rivet in that hole too. The cleco is installed and removed with
> a pair of special pliers referred to as forceps in the trade. Because
> of the spring, it takes a certain amount of strength to use them. But
> not much, as shown by Rosy the Riveter and her million sisters.
>
> To use clecos, you insert the tang into the hole, press the cleco flush
> against the visible part then squeeze the handles whilst maintaining a
> moderate amount of pressure on the cleco. The pair of shaped wires are
> squeezed past the tang and through the hole in the INVISIBLE part with
> a slight click, telling you it's okay to relax your grip and go on to
> the next one. Doing a panel, you'll have a handful of clecos in one
> hand, the forceps in the other, shooting a cleco into every third or
> fourth hole at the rate of about one every five seconds or less. Do it
> right, it takes just that one, quick squeeze. Since you aren't
> trying to hold the cleco compressed, and since you only have to
> compress it far enough to let the shaped wires through the hole, it
> doesn't take a lot of strength - - even a kid can do it.
>
> What the fellow at the RV factory was doing was putting a cleco into
> the forceps then squeezing until the locking wires were fully extended.
> Holding it with the spring fully compressed, he was trying to fly the
> pair of locking wires through the hole in the two layers of metal,
> which he eventually did. But he was spending a minute or more per
> cleco. In the time he took to do one row a real tin-bender would have
> secured the entire panel.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> I've reached an age where I'm no longer surprised at the things
> people don't know but should. My visit to the RV factory showed me
> yet another reason why some folks think riveting is hard. And why
> others take years to complete a six-month project.
>
> -R.S.Hoover
>
> PS - PK's are hex-head sheet-metal screws fitted with a non-marring
> washer. That what we used before clecos came along.
>

D.Reid wrote:
> "Forceps"???...what the hell are "FORCEPS"???
> I been in the "trade" for 30 years and I never heard of nuttin called
> forceps!!!...that had anything to do with cleco's...


I'm willing to wager that you were never in the Navy. I know Bob was &
I have heard other Navy guys call them forceps. Different lingo in
different circles. Given theat the tool isn't used to ply anything,
forceps might even be a more accurate term. Sorry that the world
doesn't conform to your expectations.

Daniel

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> D.Reid wrote:
> > "Forceps"???...what the hell are "FORCEPS"???
> > I been in the "trade" for 30 years and I never heard of nuttin called
> > forceps!!!...that had anything to do with cleco's...
>
>
> I'm willing to wager that you were never in the Navy. I know Bob was &
> I have heard other Navy guys call them forceps. Different lingo in
> different circles. Given theat the tool isn't used to ply anything,
> forceps might even be a more accurate term. Sorry that the world
> doesn't conform to your expectations.
>
> Daniel
>
If someone at work ask to borrow my forceps, he or she would get a deer in
the headlight look. However, third drawer down on the right is my CLECO
pliers. Oh yeah, 23 years in the NAVY.

"LP" > wrote in message
.net...
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > I'm willing to wager that you were never in the Navy. I know Bob was &
> > I have heard other Navy guys call them forceps. Different lingo in
> > different circles. Given theat the tool isn't used to ply anything,
> > forceps might even be a more accurate term. Sorry that the world
> > doesn't conform to your expectations.
> >
> > Daniel
> >
> If someone at work ask to borrow my forceps, he or she would get a deer
in
> the headlight look. However, third drawer down on the right is my CLECO
> pliers. Oh yeah, 23 years in the NAVY.
>

That is interesting. The "Aircraft Tool Control Manual - Navy and Marine
Corps" states that the C-40A AF Sheet Metal Roll-Away Tool box 5120 contains
a "Forcepts, Sheet Metal, Holding, Cleco."

See: http://www.allendoc.com/pubs/17-1C40A-1.pdf page 138.

Guys, guys, cleco, forceps, tomato, tomotto

"Every ship [squadron] is different."
(7 years in the Navy)

Happy New Year :)

"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...
> :That is interesting. The "Aircraft Tool Control Manual - Navy and Marine
> :Corps" states that the C-40A AF Sheet Metal Roll-Away Tool box 5120
contains
> :a "Forcepts, Sheet Metal, Holding, Cleco."
> :
> :See: http://www.allendoc.com/pubs/17-1C40A-1.pdf page 138.
>
snip
> (And the Navy apparently spells it with a T)
>
> Kelly forceps are also great for holding small things together while
> epoxy hardens.
>
> Richard "Landlubber" Riley
> Zero years in the Navy

Richard the Navy doesn't spell it with a "T". It is just a matter of me not
being able to type.

Thank you Jim...and LP.

There are those of us that work in the "Real World" to keep'em flyin...and
those that wanna "Go by the book".
(forceps,sheetmetal holding, secured clamp, cleco, 1 each per tool
container, mobile,7 drawer, four wheels, one handle...and
Blah...Blah...Blah...Blah....

I wish the book guy's would get outta'tha' way...they're slowin the rest of
us down.

Dave...one of the 10% and damn proud of it.
NARFJAX (now NADEP) WG-10 "Tinbender" P-3, S-2, S-3, T-2, A-7, F/A-18
line.
How long???...Too long.


"Jim Carriere" > wrote in message
. ..
> Guys, guys, cleco, forceps, tomato, tomotto
>
> "Every ship [squadron] is different."
> (7 years in the Navy)
>
> Happy New Year :)

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 13:10:43 GMT, "LP" >
wrote:

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>>
>> D.Reid wrote:
>> > "Forceps"???...what the hell are "FORCEPS"???
>> > I been in the "trade" for 30 years and I never heard of nuttin called
>> > forceps!!!...that had anything to do with cleco's...
>>
>>
>> I'm willing to wager that you were never in the Navy. I know Bob was &
>> I have heard other Navy guys call them forceps. Different lingo in
>> different circles. Given theat the tool isn't used to ply anything,
>> forceps might even be a more accurate term. Sorry that the world
>> doesn't conform to your expectations.
>>
>> Daniel
>>
> If someone at work ask to borrow my forceps, he or she would get a deer in
>the headlight look. However, third drawer down on the right is my CLECO
>pliers. Oh yeah, 23 years in the NAVY.
>
I've worked with and around electronics most of my life and computers
since they came on the scene. If you ask for my forceps that is
exactly what is in the second drawer down in the smaller tool box,
right along with a bunch of dentists tools. I think there are probably
a couple of scalpels in there too.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:23:18 -0800, Richard Riley
> wrote:

>On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:34:11 -0700, "Wayne Paul" >
>wrote:
>
>:
>:"LP" > wrote in message
k.net...
>:> > wrote in message
>:> oups.com...
>:> >
>:> > I'm willing to wager that you were never in the Navy. I know Bob was &
>:> > I have heard other Navy guys call them forceps. Different lingo in
>:> > different circles. Given theat the tool isn't used to ply anything,
>:> > forceps might even be a more accurate term. Sorry that the world
>:> > doesn't conform to your expectations.
>:> >
>:> > Daniel
>:> >
>:> If someone at work ask to borrow my forceps, he or she would get a deer
>:in
>:> the headlight look. However, third drawer down on the right is my CLECO
>:> pliers. Oh yeah, 23 years in the NAVY.
>:>
>:
>:That is interesting. The "Aircraft Tool Control Manual - Navy and Marine
>:Corps" states that the C-40A AF Sheet Metal Roll-Away Tool box 5120 contains
>:a "Forcepts, Sheet Metal, Holding, Cleco."
>:
>:See: http://www.allendoc.com/pubs/17-1C40A-1.pdf page 138.
>
>Very strange. I use forceps to temporarily clamp 2 sheets of sheet
>aluminum together all the time - before they are drilled or clecoed.
>Specifically, 5" straight or curved Kelly forceps. I'd never heard of
>cleco pliers being cals that. (And the Navy apparently spells it with
>a T)
>
>Kelly forceps are also great for holding small things together while
>epoxy hardens.

I thought that was what fingers were for, at least when using the fast
setting variety (or super glue)

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>Richard "Landlubber" Riley
>Zero years in the Navy

Roger wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 13:10:43 GMT, "LP" >
> wrote:
>
>
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>>
>>>D.Reid wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Forceps"???...what the hell are "FORCEPS"???
>>>>I been in the "trade" for 30 years and I never heard of nuttin called
>>>>forceps!!!...that had anything to do with cleco's...
>>>
>>>
>>>I'm willing to wager that you were never in the Navy. I know Bob was &
>>>I have heard other Navy guys call them forceps. Different lingo in
>>>different circles. Given theat the tool isn't used to ply anything,
>>>forceps might even be a more accurate term. Sorry that the world
>>>doesn't conform to your expectations.
>>>
>>>Daniel
>>>
>>
>>If someone at work ask to borrow my forceps, he or she would get a deer in
>>the headlight look. However, third drawer down on the right is my CLECO
>>pliers. Oh yeah, 23 years in the NAVY.
>>
>
> I've worked with and around electronics most of my life and computers
> since they came on the scene. If you ask for my forceps that is
> exactly what is in the second drawer down in the smaller tool box,
> right along with a bunch of dentists tools. I think there are probably
> a couple of scalpels in there too.
>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>
They make terrific heat sinks.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"D.Reid" > wrote in message
...
> Thank you Jim...and LP.
>
> There are those of us that work in the "Real World" to keep'em flyin...and
> those that wanna "Go by the book".
> (forceps,sheetmetal holding, secured clamp, cleco, 1 each per tool
> container, mobile,7 drawer, four wheels, one handle...and
> Blah...Blah...Blah...Blah....
>
> I wish the book guy's would get outta'tha' way...they're slowin the rest
of
> us down.
>
> Dave...one of the 10% and damn proud of it.
> NARFJAX (now NADEP) WG-10 "Tinbender" P-3, S-2, S-3, T-2, A-7, F/A-18
> line.
> How long???...Too long.
>
>
> "Jim Carriere" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Guys, guys, cleco, forceps, tomato, tomotto
> >
> > "Every ship [squadron] is different."
> > (7 years in the Navy)
> >
> > Happy New Year :)
>
>
While putting iron in the air is all of our goals, I can appreciate Wayne
being able to quote the C-40 Tool pub as his reference. Working at a
civilian helicopter completions center, I know that when the FAA shows up
and asks what adhesive you are using when installing a doubler, you better
be able to show him/her the information in the appropriate Structural Repair
Manual you referenced when doing that modification.

"LP" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "D.Reid" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Thank you Jim...and LP.
> >
> > There are those of us that work in the "Real World" to keep'em
flyin...and
> > those that wanna "Go by the book".
> > (forceps,sheetmetal holding, secured clamp, cleco, 1 each per tool
> > container, mobile,7 drawer, four wheels, one handle...and
> > Blah...Blah...Blah...Blah....
> >
> > I wish the book guy's would get outta'tha' way...they're slowin the rest
> of
> > us down.
> >
> > Dave...one of the 10% and damn proud of it.
> > NARFJAX (now NADEP) WG-10 "Tinbender" P-3, S-2, S-3, T-2, A-7, F/A-18
> > line.
> > How long???...Too long.
> >
> >
> > "Jim Carriere" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > > Guys, guys, cleco, forceps, tomato, tomotto
> > >
> > > "Every ship [squadron] is different."
> > > (7 years in the Navy)
> > >
> > > Happy New Year :)
> >
> >
> While putting iron in the air is all of our goals, I can appreciate Wayne
> being able to quote the C-40 Tool pub as his reference. Working at a
> civilian helicopter completions center, I know that when the FAA shows up
> and asks what adhesive you are using when installing a doubler, you better
> be able to show him/her the information in the appropriate Structural
Repair
> Manual you referenced when doing that modification.

Nawww.....Thats Engineerings Department. Just refer the Feds to them.
>
>

"Roger" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 13:10:43 GMT, "LP" >
> wrote:
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >>
> >> D.Reid wrote:
> >> > "Forceps"???...what the hell are "FORCEPS"???
> >> > I been in the "trade" for 30 years and I never heard of nuttin called
> >> > forceps!!!...that had anything to do with cleco's...
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm willing to wager that you were never in the Navy. I know Bob was &
> >> I have heard other Navy guys call them forceps. Different lingo in
> >> different circles. Given theat the tool isn't used to ply anything,
> >> forceps might even be a more accurate term. Sorry that the world
> >> doesn't conform to your expectations.
> >>
> >> Daniel
> >>
> > If someone at work ask to borrow my forceps, he or she would get a deer
in
> >the headlight look. However, third drawer down on the right is my CLECO
> >pliers. Oh yeah, 23 years in the NAVY.
> >
> I've worked with and around electronics most of my life and computers
> since they came on the scene. If you ask for my forceps that is
> exactly what is in the second drawer down in the smaller tool box,
> right along with a bunch of dentists tools. I think there are probably
> a couple of scalpels in there too.
>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> www.rogerhalstead.com

Now Roger...we're talkin' a different kinda "animule" here...You're
absolutly right. In Electronics and "Delicate" instrument work "Forceps"
certainly have there place...but...They were talkin about "Cleco pliers".

(Big Grin)
Dave
>
> >

"Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired" > wrote in message
news:MBRtf.70548$sg5.20117@dukeread12...
> Roger wrote:
> > On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 13:10:43 GMT, "LP" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >>
> >>>D.Reid wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>"Forceps"???...what the hell are "FORCEPS"???
> >>>>I been in the "trade" for 30 years and I never heard of nuttin called
> >>>>forceps!!!...that had anything to do with cleco's...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I'm willing to wager that you were never in the Navy. I know Bob was &
> >>>I have heard other Navy guys call them forceps. Different lingo in
> >>>different circles. Given theat the tool isn't used to ply anything,
> >>>forceps might even be a more accurate term. Sorry that the world
> >>>doesn't conform to your expectations.
> >>>
> >>>Daniel
> >>>
> >>
> >>If someone at work ask to borrow my forceps, he or she would get a deer
in
> >>the headlight look. However, third drawer down on the right is my CLECO
> >>pliers. Oh yeah, 23 years in the NAVY.
> >>
> >
> > I've worked with and around electronics most of my life and computers
> > since they came on the scene. If you ask for my forceps that is
> > exactly what is in the second drawer down in the smaller tool box,
> > right along with a bunch of dentists tools. I think there are probably
> > a couple of scalpels in there too.
> >
> > Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> > (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> > www.rogerhalstead.com
> >
> >
> They make terrific heat sinks.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Right you are Dan...I use them for just that purpose quite often...as long
as I'm soldering. If I'm Oxy/Acy welding they dont work so "hot" !
Dave...down in Florida.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> D.Reid wrote:
> > "Forceps"???...what the hell are "FORCEPS"???
> > I been in the "trade" for 30 years and I never heard of nuttin called
> > forceps!!!...that had anything to do with cleco's...
>
>
> I'm willing to wager that you were never in the Navy. I know Bob was &
> I have heard other Navy guys call them forceps. Different lingo in
> different circles. Given theat the tool isn't used to ply anything,
> forceps might even be a more accurate term. Sorry that the world
> doesn't conform to your expectations.
>
> Daniel

Not true Dan...the world conforms exactly to my expectations! Totally
unpredictable and nowhere near what common sense
might dictate. I would'nt have it any other way! At least on these terms...I
know what I'm dealing with.

Dave...down in Florida
>

**** em, Hoover. You have contributed more in here than all of them
combined.

The Monk

D.Reid wrote:
> "Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired" > wrote in message
> news:MBRtf.70548$sg5.20117@dukeread12...
>
>>Roger wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 13:10:43 GMT, "LP" >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>D.Reid wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Forceps"???...what the hell are "FORCEPS"???
>>>>>>I been in the "trade" for 30 years and I never heard of nuttin called
>>>>>>forceps!!!...that had anything to do with cleco's...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm willing to wager that you were never in the Navy. I know Bob was &
>>>>>I have heard other Navy guys call them forceps. Different lingo in
>>>>>different circles. Given theat the tool isn't used to ply anything,
>>>>>forceps might even be a more accurate term. Sorry that the world
>>>>>doesn't conform to your expectations.
>>>>>
>>>>>Daniel
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>If someone at work ask to borrow my forceps, he or she would get a deer
>
> in
>
>>>>the headlight look. However, third drawer down on the right is my CLECO
>>>>pliers. Oh yeah, 23 years in the NAVY.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I've worked with and around electronics most of my life and computers
>>>since they came on the scene. If you ask for my forceps that is
>>>exactly what is in the second drawer down in the smaller tool box,
>>>right along with a bunch of dentists tools. I think there are probably
>>>a couple of scalpels in there too.
>>>
>>>Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
>>>(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
>>>www.rogerhalstead.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>> They make terrific heat sinks.
>>
>>Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
>
> Right you are Dan...I use them for just that purpose quite often...as long
> as I'm soldering. If I'm Oxy/Acy welding they dont work so "hot" !
> Dave...down in Florida.
>
>

Ah yes, the plywood state, land of the blue roofs :) I'm near Eglin AFB.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 00:28:34 -0500, "D.Reid" >
wrote:

>
>"Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired" > wrote in message
>news:MBRtf.70548$sg5.20117@dukeread12...
>> Roger wrote:
>> > On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 13:10:43 GMT, "LP" >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >>
>> >>>D.Reid wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>"Forceps"???...what the hell are "FORCEPS"???
>> >>>>I been in the "trade" for 30 years and I never heard of nuttin called
>> >>>>forceps!!!...that had anything to do with cleco's...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>I'm willing to wager that you were never in the Navy. I know Bob was &
>> >>>I have heard other Navy guys call them forceps. Different lingo in
>> >>>different circles. Given theat the tool isn't used to ply anything,
>> >>>forceps might even be a more accurate term. Sorry that the world
>> >>>doesn't conform to your expectations.
>> >>>
>> >>>Daniel
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>If someone at work ask to borrow my forceps, he or she would get a deer
>in
>> >>the headlight look. However, third drawer down on the right is my CLECO
>> >>pliers. Oh yeah, 23 years in the NAVY.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I've worked with and around electronics most of my life and computers
>> > since they came on the scene. If you ask for my forceps that is
>> > exactly what is in the second drawer down in the smaller tool box,
>> > right along with a bunch of dentists tools. I think there are probably
>> > a couple of scalpels in there too.
>> >
>> > Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
>> > (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
>> > www.rogerhalstead.com
>> >
>> >
>> They make terrific heat sinks.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
>Right you are Dan...I use them for just that purpose quite often...as long
>as I'm soldering. If I'm Oxy/Acy welding they dont work so "hot" !
>Dave...down in Florida.

That's a # 3 ought, not a #3! But... even then they are a tad
anemic and a bit light on the mass for a heat sink. OTOH I guess
the #3 is better than a "Rosebud" tip<:-)) Every time I use that last
one it makes me glad I leased the full size tanks.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>

On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 00:25:14 -0500, "D.Reid" >
wrote:

>
>"Roger" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 13:10:43 GMT, "LP" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >>
>> >> D.Reid wrote:
>> >> > "Forceps"???...what the hell are "FORCEPS"???
>> >> > I been in the "trade" for 30 years and I never heard of nuttin called
>> >> > forceps!!!...that had anything to do with cleco's...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I'm willing to wager that you were never in the Navy. I know Bob was &
>> >> I have heard other Navy guys call them forceps. Different lingo in
>> >> different circles. Given theat the tool isn't used to ply anything,
>> >> forceps might even be a more accurate term. Sorry that the world
>> >> doesn't conform to your expectations.
>> >>
>> >> Daniel
>> >>
>> > If someone at work ask to borrow my forceps, he or she would get a deer
>in
>> >the headlight look. However, third drawer down on the right is my CLECO
>> >pliers. Oh yeah, 23 years in the NAVY.
>> >
>> I've worked with and around electronics most of my life and computers
>> since they came on the scene. If you ask for my forceps that is
>> exactly what is in the second drawer down in the smaller tool box,
>> right along with a bunch of dentists tools. I think there are probably
>> a couple of scalpels in there too.
>>
>> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
>> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
>> www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>Now Roger...we're talkin' a different kinda "animule" here...You're
>absolutly right. In Electronics and "Delicate" instrument work "Forceps"
>certainly have there place...but...They were talkin about "Cleco pliers".

KleeeKoooo.... I know there must be some place on the G-III where I'm
supposed to use something like that. <:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>(Big Grin)
>Dave
>>
>> >
>

Oh myyyyy....is that anyway for a Monk to talk?...Wait a minute...I
forgot!!!...you're not supposed to be talking!!!

:-)
"Flyingmonk" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> **** em, Hoover. You have contributed more in here than all of them
> combined.
>
> The Monk
>

You talkin about them "Blue Roofs" that flap in the breeze???...We've been
lucky so far. I'am near JAX
Dave
"Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired" > wrote in message
news:CY3uf.71737$sg5.2381@dukeread12...
> D.Reid wrote:
> > "Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired" > wrote in message
> > news:MBRtf.70548$sg5.20117@dukeread12...
> >
> >>Roger wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 13:10:43 GMT, "LP" >
> >>>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>D.Reid wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>"Forceps"???...what the hell are "FORCEPS"???
> >>>>>>I been in the "trade" for 30 years and I never heard of nuttin
called
> >>>>>>forceps!!!...that had anything to do with cleco's...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I'm willing to wager that you were never in the Navy. I know Bob was
&
> >>>>>I have heard other Navy guys call them forceps. Different lingo in
> >>>>>different circles. Given theat the tool isn't used to ply anything,
> >>>>>forceps might even be a more accurate term. Sorry that the world
> >>>>>doesn't conform to your expectations.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Daniel
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>If someone at work ask to borrow my forceps, he or she would get a
deer
> >
> > in
> >
> >>>>the headlight look. However, third drawer down on the right is my
CLECO
> >>>>pliers. Oh yeah, 23 years in the NAVY.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>I've worked with and around electronics most of my life and computers
> >>>since they came on the scene. If you ask for my forceps that is
> >>>exactly what is in the second drawer down in the smaller tool box,
> >>>right along with a bunch of dentists tools. I think there are probably
> >>>a couple of scalpels in there too.
> >>>
> >>>Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> >>>(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> >>>www.rogerhalstead.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> They make terrific heat sinks.
> >>
> >>Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
> >
> >
> > Right you are Dan...I use them for just that purpose quite often...as
long
> > as I'm soldering. If I'm Oxy/Acy welding they dont work so "hot" !
> > Dave...down in Florida.
> >
> >
>
> Ah yes, the plywood state, land of the blue roofs :) I'm near Eglin AFB.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>

D.Reid wrote:
> You talkin about them "Blue Roofs" that flap in the breeze???...We've been
> lucky so far. I'am near JAX
> Dave

No problem, next season you can have some of my hurricanes. Heck,
I'll even throw in a few tornadoes too. My mother taught me to share.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired